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George Zimmerman verdict thread

245

Comments

  • twatgettatwatgetta Members Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    nj2089 wrote: »
    lol at hot97 all of sudden playing public enemy

    they just 🤬 trying to act responsible now. should just go back to interviewing weezy and chief keef.
  • indyman87indyman87 Members Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭
    It's funny how Zimmerman changed from looking like a stack @ss street thug when he first got arrested to a Mexican version of the Pillsbury dough boy.
  • AljazzAljazz Members Posts: 5
    The Trayvon Martin trial was not supposed to happen. This is true in two respects. The Trayvon Martin trial only took place because public outrage prompted Florida police to arrest George Zimmerman, the man who killed him, over a month after Martin's death. The Trayvon Martin trial took place because that same public went on to try Martin in his own murder, assessing his morality like it precluded his right to live. It was never a trial of George Zimmerman. It was always a trial of Trayvon Martin, always a character assassination of the dead.


    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/07/201371495445953104.html
  • twatgettatwatgetta Members Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll be glad when you 🤬 get ofer this 🤬 . yall act Jesus Christ was murdered by Zimmerman or something. 🤬 die everyday for suspect reasons....focus on Chicago and put pressure on that housenigga Obama for a change. this TM case is over with. move on.
  • PlutarchPlutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    SHAYDEEEE wrote: »
    considering all the murders every year why do you think THIS particular one received so much publicity. and why do people feel outraged like they know exactly what happened that day?
    This case got so much publicity because the cops and the system allowed a known killer to walk free. Initially, Zimmerman wasn't even charged anything for killing Trayvon, and that's the difference between this case and the average black on black violence case. When the police know that a black man has killed someone, he is arrested and charged.

    We do know what happened in the Zimmerman case because 911 calls paint the picture. GZ profiled Trayvon, followed him, then killed him. Even according to Zimmerman, Trayvon was running away from him only to be pursued further. The things that we don't know doesn't change what we do now. The jury's decision was par for the course and we should've all seen this coming. Black life is just not as valuable as white life to white people. A jury 5/6 white was never going to place the proper value on a young black man's life. This is why they gave Zimmerman more than the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that he clearly initiated an incident that led to the killing of an unarmed 17 year old. I'm really not mad at the decision because maybe this will finally wake us up. Whites aren't playing, things are getting real and blacks need to wake up. There's a war going on outside and we are all that we've got.

    I call 🤬 on this. This whole ordeal imo is a lot more complicated than how you see it. And a lot less biased.

    This is not even just a legal case anymore if it were ever that in the first place. It’s part of a media circus, and it’s now just full of melodrama, sensationalism, blatant ignorance, race-baiting, and all other kinds of 🤬 . And a lot of people are falling for this 🤬 . Letting their emotions cloud any sense of rationality and treating Martin as if they personally knew him. Ugh.

    Yes, Zimmerman should’ve been charged with at least something. But manslaughter and second-degree murder (imo, the two, most serious charges he justifiably could’ve/should’ve been convicted of) would be very difficult charges to prove. In addition to this uphill battle that people seem to not acknowledge, there is also the fact that the prosecution team (much like with that of the Casey Anthony case) were not very proficient. Therefore, an acquittal was very likely to happen. I don’t see how anyone could actually be surprised by the outcome.

    This case is not symptomatic of some racist-system designed to 🤬 “our children.” Yes, the system is racist, but this case has very little to do with that. If you want to see true racism (or better yet, classism), pay attention to the countless number of other cases that negatively affect Americans of all races. Even though they won't show these cases on the news because there’s no juicy story to exploit. But if you’re so outraged, then you’d make the active effort to check out these cases on your own and actually do something to reform this incompetent system as opposed to just 🤬 .

    Btw, this whole post wasn’t directed at you, godbynature. So no disrespect.
  • spiritgod87spiritgod87 Members Posts: 409 ✭✭✭✭
    twatgetta wrote: »
    I'll be glad when you 🤬 get ofer this 🤬 . yall act Jesus Christ was murdered by Zimmerman or something. 🤬 die everyday for suspect reasons....focus on Chicago and put pressure on that housenigga Obama for a change. this TM case is over with. move on.


    Hell no, like the jews say "NEVER FORGET"
  • godbynaturegodbynature Members Posts: 12
    Plutarch wrote: »
    SHAYDEEEE wrote: »
    considering all the murders every year why do you think THIS particular one received so much publicity. and why do people feel outraged like they know exactly what happened that day?
    This case got so much publicity because the cops and the system allowed a known killer to walk free. Initially, Zimmerman wasn't even charged anything for killing Trayvon, and that's the difference between this case and the average black on black violence case. When the police know that a black man has killed someone, he is arrested and charged.

    We do know what happened in the Zimmerman case because 911 calls paint the picture. GZ profiled Trayvon, followed him, then killed him. Even according to Zimmerman, Trayvon was running away from him only to be pursued further. The things that we don't know doesn't change what we do now. The jury's decision was par for the course and we should've all seen this coming. Black life is just not as valuable as white life to white people. A jury 5/6 white was never going to place the proper value on a young black man's life. This is why they gave Zimmerman more than the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that he clearly initiated an incident that led to the killing of an unarmed 17 year old. I'm really not mad at the decision because maybe this will finally wake us up. Whites aren't playing, things are getting real and blacks need to wake up. There's a war going on outside and we are all that we've got.

    I call 🤬 on this. This whole ordeal imo is a lot more complicated than how you see it. And a lot less biased.

    This is not even just a legal case anymore if it were ever that in the first place. It’s part of a media circus, and it’s now just full of melodrama, sensationalism, blatant ignorance, race-baiting, and all other kinds of 🤬 . And a lot of people are falling for this 🤬 . Letting their emotions cloud any sense of rationality and treating Martin as if they personally knew him. Ugh.

    Yes, Zimmerman should’ve been charged with at least something. But manslaughter and second-degree murder (imo, the two, most serious charges he justifiably could’ve/should’ve been convicted of) would be very difficult charges to prove. In addition to this uphill battle that people seem to not acknowledge, there is also the fact that the prosecution team (much like with that of the Casey Anthony case) were not very proficient. Therefore, an acquittal was very likely to happen. I don’t see how anyone could actually be surprised by the outcome.

    This case is not symptomatic of some racist-system designed to 🤬 “our children.” Yes, the system is racist, but this case has very little to do with that. If you want to see true racism (or better yet, classism), pay attention to the countless number of other cases that negatively affect Americans of all races. Even though they won't show these cases on the news because there’s no juicy story to exploit. But if you’re so outraged, then you’d make the active effort to check out these cases on your own and actually do something to reform this incompetent system as opposed to just 🤬 .

    Btw, this whole post wasn’t directed at you, godbynature. So no disrespect.
    I actually do take offense to this drivel that you posted because its an insult to my intelligence. You could've kept this to yourself because you didn't say 🤬 .

  • PlutarchPlutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    I actually do take offense to this drivel that you posted

    Meh, well so much for civility and maturity. If you do take offense to my "drivel," then that's out of my hands because, once again, I meant no disrespect.
    because its an insult to my intelligence.

    Not sure I'm understanding you here. If you're saying that I'm being condescending, then you've misunderstood me. Either that or you don't handle criticism very well.
    You could've kept this to yourself

    Heh, and why would I do that? And why are you taking this so personal heh? I'm getting the impression that you thought that whole post was addressed to you. If so, don't flatter yourself. Only the first three sentences were addressed to you. The other 90% of the post had nothing to do with you and was just a general post.
    because you didn't say 🤬 .

    Well, I guess we disagree.

    And the fact that you got into your feelings may say otherwise. And the fact that you replied to me but didn't really address anything means that you're the one who didn't say 🤬 . And I still have no idea why you're butthurt.
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    twatgetta wrote: »
    I'll be glad when you 🤬 get ofer this 🤬 . yall act Jesus Christ was murdered by Zimmerman or something. 🤬 die everyday for suspect reasons....focus on Chicago and put pressure on that housenigga Obama for a change. this TM case is over with. move on.

    Believe me when I say this, Black people as a whole will not forget this case. Blacks are seeing the American justice system for what it is:

    A justice system BUILT for White people, made for White people, and FOR White people. The seeds of mistrust have been planted and the consequences for America will be severe. Innocent people are getting hurt over this already, and that's what happens when the seeds of mistrust are planted and watered. Watered for 300 years through evil and brutality. It's gona get very ugly in American society in the next few weeks, my friends are already telling me what they're doing......
  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    The things that we don't know doesn't change what we do now.
    i don't know: the confrontation itself is a HUGE unknown and depending on what happened, it really changes whether or not this verdict was legit

  • desertrain10desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    Plutarch wrote: »
    SHAYDEEEE wrote: »
    considering all the murders every year why do you think THIS particular one received so much publicity. and why do people feel outraged like they know exactly what happened that day?
    This case got so much publicity because the cops and the system allowed a known killer to walk free. Initially, Zimmerman wasn't even charged anything for killing Trayvon, and that's the difference between this case and the average black on black violence case. When the police know that a black man has killed someone, he is arrested and charged.

    We do know what happened in the Zimmerman case because 911 calls paint the picture. GZ profiled Trayvon, followed him, then killed him. Even according to Zimmerman, Trayvon was running away from him only to be pursued further. The things that we don't know doesn't change what we do now. The jury's decision was par for the course and we should've all seen this coming. Black life is just not as valuable as white life to white people. A jury 5/6 white was never going to place the proper value on a young black man's life. This is why they gave Zimmerman more than the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that he clearly initiated an incident that led to the killing of an unarmed 17 year old. I'm really not mad at the decision because maybe this will finally wake us up. Whites aren't playing, things are getting real and blacks need to wake up. There's a war going on outside and we are all that we've got.

    I call 🤬 on this. This whole ordeal imo is a lot more complicated than how you see it. And a lot less biased.

    This is not even just a legal case anymore if it were ever that in the first place. It’s part of a media circus, and it’s now just full of melodrama, sensationalism, blatant ignorance, race-baiting, and all other kinds of 🤬 . And a lot of people are falling for this 🤬 . Letting their emotions cloud any sense of rationality and treating Martin as if they personally knew him. Ugh.

    Yes, Zimmerman should’ve been charged with at least something. But manslaughter and second-degree murder (imo, the two, most serious charges he justifiably could’ve/should’ve been convicted of) would be very difficult charges to prove. In addition to this uphill battle that people seem to not acknowledge, there is also the fact that the prosecution team (much like with that of the Casey Anthony case) were not very proficient. Therefore, an acquittal was very likely to happen. I don’t see how anyone could actually be surprised by the outcome.

    This case is not symptomatic of some racist-system designed to 🤬 “our children.” Yes, the system is racist, but this case has very little to do with that. If you want to see true racism (or better yet, classism), pay attention to the countless number of other cases that negatively affect Americans of all races. Even though they won't show these cases on the news because there’s no juicy story to exploit. But if you’re so outraged, then you’d make the active effort to check out these cases on your own and actually do something to reform this incompetent system as opposed to just 🤬 .

    Btw, this whole post wasn’t directed at you, godbynature. So no disrespect.

    long read ...but here goes

    this entire argument that race played no role in the shooting, or the proceedings is so frustratingly naive ...it was all about race. race is intertwined into every facet of our soceity

    fact is since the days of slavery we have lived in a soceity that has purposely portrayed black men as criminal, a threat in waiting... and did so to drum up fear, to maintain the racial hierarchy that is america. that's why this case impacted so many people. to many including myself zimmerman was just the product of our soceity, the embodiment of how our nation feels about black people and black men in particular. he didn't see trayvon as an ordinary teen only a threat, something inhuman. not once did he give trayvon the benefit of the doubt, he assumed the worst and has yet to express any regret or any face substantial consequences for his actions.

    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.

    and i get it there's the law, then theres the burden of proof, and the prosecution could have done a better job presenting their case... but then you also have to ask the question are juries/judges/lawyers not products of our soceity as well. they enter the court room carrying with them their own prejudices and racial biases... no coincidence white victims and criminals are favored in the court of law

    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night

    was it not the plan of the defense to feed into the jury's fears and prejudices when they paraded around an old picture of a shirtless trayvon with a gold grill...and do you honestly feel they would've tried the same tactic had the jury been made up of black men and women. seriously doubt it

    yes, there may be more pressing issues i agree...but sensible people know rallies like the ones where people were demanding justice for the martin family, aren't going to curb a complex issues such as black on black violence which has deep socioeconomic roots. that's accomplished through policy making from a seemly inept government that has time and time again championed corporate interest over those of its people, no matter who was in office

    also understand we live in a day in age where in black men as well as Muslims, latinos, 🤬 are being strategically targeted and/or profiled by state officials across the nation...that's another big reason why narratives like trayvon martin's stir so many emotions and consequently got so much media coverage

    as far as class goes .... race and class as inextricably intertwined categories because of this country’s centuries of racial oppression. no coincidence that there is wage, wealth gap between whites and non-whites
  • PlutarchPlutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ^^^ cool, I actually got a mature and rational response for a change. I gotta go now, but I'll be back. But from what I skimmed, I don't think I necessarily disagree with a lot of what you said.
  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.
    wait, doesn't this also say that thousands of people had decided what the verdict should be before they had access to a complete range of forensic and eyewitness testimony? because that doesn't really sound like the best way to decide a court case
    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night
    what would have been going through Trayvon's mind that would have made Zimmerman more likely to be convicted, though?

    look, my contention was that Martin saw this mysterious guy following him, confronted him about it and things ended up as they did. i completely understand why he would do something like that. but if you're talking about Zimmerman not being convicted... what in the mindset of Martin is going to do that?

  • PlutarchPlutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    long read ...but here goes

    Thanks for taking the time. Well, let me just go ahead and apologize for my long read in advance.
    this entire argument that race played no role in the shooting, or the proceedings is so frustratingly naive ...it was all about race. race is intertwined into every facet of our society

    To be fair, I personally don’t think that race played no role. I think that race played a non-major role that is being exaggerated for understandably emotional and political reasons, but that doesn’t make it right or true. It’s possible that race had a lot to do with it, but there is no real EVIDENCE that suggests that, especially regarding the proceedings. Zimmerman got off not because of race. He got off because our court system is flawed across the board. It’s not like they intentionally let him off because Trayvon was black and who cares about Trayvon. How does that make sense?
    Race is indeed intertwined in our society, but so is a lot of other variables that are being downplayed. And we see race in everything because we want to see race in everything, but, again, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true. At least, let’s take a look at the real facts and evidence regarding this case. I don’t think people are doing that, and they are just rushing to premature conclusions based on emotions and generalizations. I’m against our racist court system as much as you are, but I’m also against putting the cart before the horse.
    fact is since the days of slavery we have lived in a soceity that has purposely portrayed black men as criminal, a threat in waiting... and did so to drum up fear, to maintain the racial hierarchy that is america. that's why this case impacted so many people. to many including myself zimmerman was just the product of our soceity, the embodiment of how our nation feels about black people and black men in particular. he didn't see trayvon as an ordinary teen only a threat, something inhuman. not once did he give trayvon the benefit of the doubt, he assumed the worst and has yet to express any regret or any face substantial consequences for his actions.

    I mostly agree besides the vague “it’s the white man that’s keeping the black man down” impression that I’m getting. Zimmerman definitely should’ve been reprimanded for his actions, but, again, it’s mostly the fault of how hard it was to prove murder in this unique case. And how incompetent the prosecution team was. It wasn’t because Zimmerman was “white” and Martin was “black.” If the races were reversed, the same outcome would most likely have happened. Let’s not forget that this whole ordeal isn’t over. Zimmerman will live a life of scrutiny. Zimmerman will face judgment in civil court cases. There may also be the possibility of retrials if indeed the jury was incompetent as well. A lot of people are unhappy. I just hope they concentrate that unrest into activism that actually exposes and criticizes our court systems instead of just focusing on racism and hatred and rioting.
  • PlutarchPlutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.

    I don’t think attention to the case was created by the media. I think that the media took the grassroots attention and exploited and scandalized it into the circus it is now. This certainly isn’t new. It was done with that Jodi Arias or whatever that crazy 🤬 ’s name was. And it was done with Michael Jackson. And it was done with Jessica Lynch. And so on. My problem is that we forget about the things that matter and fail to look at the case with rationality and concentrate on the drama and let our emotions go. Some people have never followed the case, don’t know what happened, don’t know anything about the whole ordeal, but still voice very emotionally charged opinions about it. But those opinions are just baseless. I also find it irksome that the media is paying so much attention to this case when there are literally millions of other cases (before and after the Trayvon case) in America in which there have clearly been acts of injustice. The thing is, these cases have not been on television because there is no juicy story. But if they were on television, public opinion could make an impact and reverse these injustices. It’s ironic because it’s the media attention that forced the Trayvon case to have a “just” outcome according to the current system of law. The problem is that that just outcome wasn’t really justice. And that’s why our court systems are flawed.
    and i get it there's the law, then theres the burden of proof, and the prosecution could have done a better job presenting their case... but then you also have to ask the question are juries/judges/lawyers not products of our soceity as well. they enter the court room carrying with them their own prejudices and racial biases... no coincidence white victims and criminals are favored in the court of law

    Yes, some white victims and criminals are favored. But imo, the more accurate and important fact is that wealthier victims and criminals are favored. Poor whites as well as poor blacks get thrown under the bus. Instead of this white vs black bs. We need to focus on class. That’s my beef. And I also find it very odd that people seem to imply that Zimmerman is white and that it’s the white man’s fault. Zimmerman is a middle-class Hispanic of mixed heritage if I’m not mistaken. Hispanics are discriminated against just as blacks are. This is partially why I think that Zimmerman’s acquittal has nothing to do with race and had everything to do with other flawed areas of our court system.

    As for lawyers and judges being biased. Everyone is biased unfortunately. But lawyers and judges are held to higher standards, and many of them are professional and hold themselves to the standard of being impartial and neutral. Courts are based on evidence not emotions and prejudices. Juries are another problem. But this is why we have appeals and retrials.
  • PlutarchPlutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night

    I make no assumptions on those jury members because I don’t know them, and I don’t know their motivations. And if one jury member was a black woman, then what about her? Didn’t she approve Zimmerman’s acquittal. Is she flawed as well? Or does she get a pass because she’s black? As a jury member, you make your decision based on EVIDENCE. Not so much prior experience, prejudices, sympathies, and other emotions. It’s simply evidence and law. Again, if these jury members were flawed, and if there is proof that this is so, then a retrial or appeal should be imminent if possible.
    was it not the plan of the defense to feed into the jury's fears and prejudices when they paraded around an old picture of a shirtless trayvon with a gold grill...and do you honestly feel they would've tried the same tactic had the jury been made up of black men and women. seriously doubt it

    If that is truly how it went down, then that’s deplorable. But let’s not act like that kind of bs happens on both sides. This is slightly not the same thing, but we can’t forget the old pictures of very young Trayvon that was paraded around in order to give the impression that Zimmerman ruthlessly shot a cute kid.
    yes, there may be more pressing issues i agree...but sensible people know rallies like the ones where people were demanding justice for the martin family, aren't going to curb a complex issues such as black on black violence which has deep socioeconomic roots. that's accomplished through policy making from a seemly inept government that has time and time again championed corporate interest over those of its people, no matter who was in office

    I agree. But I wouldn’t write off protests and rallies off so quickly. That’s where activism and support gathers and organizes public opinion to pressure our government into much needed reform. What I despise is this senseless and pointless 🤬 and violence and hatred that is only making things worse and helping us further divide amongst ourselves.
    also understand we live in a day in age where in black men as well as Muslims, latinos, 🤬 are being strategically targeted and/or profiled by state officials across the nation...that's another big reason why narratives like trayvon martin's stir so many emotions and consequently got so much media coverage

    I agree and disagree, but I think that you trust the media more than me. The media imo just wants a juicy story that most people will find some interest in. If the media cared about the trials and tribulations that blacks, Muslims, latinos, and 🤬 experience, they’d have so many stories to run, they wouldn’t have the time to cover them all. On the contrary, most of the stories we get are exclusively about the trials and tribulations of relatively wealthy white people, especially pretty white women. Chicago gang wars don’t make it on the national stage. Poverty or incompetent schools in the inner-city don’t either.
    as far as class goes .... race and class as inextricably intertwined categories because of this country’s centuries of racial oppression. no coincidence that there is wage, wealth gap between whites and non-whites

    Agreed. But I personally think that class is a much more important, comprehensive, and less sensational topic that needs considerable attention in comparison to race.
  • desertrain10desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    janklow wrote: »
    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.
    wait, doesn't this also say that thousands of people had decided what the verdict should be before they had access to a complete range of forensic and eyewitness testimony? because that doesn't really sound like the best way to decide a court case
    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night
    what would have been going through Trayvon's mind that would have made Zimmerman more likely to be convicted, though?

    look, my contention was that Martin saw this mysterious guy following him, confronted him about it and things ended up as they did. i completely understand why he would do something like that. but if you're talking about Zimmerman not being convicted... what in the mindset of Martin is going to do that?

    Huh?

    People originally gravitated to the story and took to the streets to voice their displeasure because a 28 yr old man who followed then killed a teenager whom he had profiled was never arrested and charged with a crime....not necessarily because they already made their mind up he was guilty of something, people just felt he should be tried in the court of law

    Anyways the point i was trying to make was the media didnt introduce race into the mix, race was always apart of the conversation...

    One could say they fanned the flames but Im thankful they did. We as nation need to have more open and honest dialogues about race and the role it plays in our everyday lives. Maybe itll inspire individuals to confront and question their own prejudices

    About the juries not being able to relate to trayvon....I was simply asserting they wouldnt be able to relate to a person like trayvon making it harder for the prosecution to humanize him.

    Where as they could connect with and sympathize with george because they too share a fear the black man making his story believable... trayvon was blk and therefore gz was fearful of this unarmed kid and rightfully so


  • desertrain10desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @plutarch

    Thanks for reading and from your responses I can tell your a very smart guy

    With that said I feel as though your downplaying the role race plays in our everyday lives...

    And I also disagree that class now trumps race...fact is poor white people still do not face the same problems, barriers as poor blacks...pretending that it does does blacks more harm then good
  • joshuaboyjoshuaboy Members Posts: 10,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.
    wait, doesn't this also say that thousands of people had decided what the verdict should be before they had access to a complete range of forensic and eyewitness testimony? because that doesn't really sound like the best way to decide a court case
    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night
    what would have been going through Trayvon's mind that would have made Zimmerman more likely to be convicted, though?

    look, my contention was that Martin saw this mysterious guy following him, confronted him about it and things ended up as they did. i completely understand why he would do something like that. but if you're talking about Zimmerman not being convicted... what in the mindset of Martin is going to do that?

    Huh?

    People originally gravitated to the story and took to the streets to voice their displeasure because a 28 yr old man who followed then killed a teenager whom he had profiled was never arrested and charged with a crime....not necessarily because they already made their mind up he was guilty of something....

    Anyways the point i was trying to make was the media didnt introduce race into the mix, race was always apart of the conversation...

    One could say they fanned the flames but Im thankful they did. We as nation need to have more open and honest dialogues about race and the role it plays in our everyday lives. Maybe itll inspire individuals to confront and question their own prejudices

    About the juries not being able to relate to trayvon....I was simply asserting they wouldnt be able to relate to a person like trayvon making it harder for the prosecution to humanize him.

    Where as they could connect with and sympathize with george because they too share a fear the black man making his story believable... trayvon was blk and therefore gz was fearful of this unarmed kid and rightfully so




    The media had a lot to do with race. The edited 911 recording tried to make it seem like GZ targeted TM because he was black. This was one of the first reports out and has stuck with a lot of people even after it was discovered that it was edited and the people involved were fired.
  • desertrain10desertrain10 Members Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭✭✭
    joshuaboy wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.
    wait, doesn't this also say that thousands of people had decided what the verdict should be before they had access to a complete range of forensic and eyewitness testimony? because that doesn't really sound like the best way to decide a court case
    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night
    what would have been going through Trayvon's mind that would have made Zimmerman more likely to be convicted, though?

    look, my contention was that Martin saw this mysterious guy following him, confronted him about it and things ended up as they did. i completely understand why he would do something like that. but if you're talking about Zimmerman not being convicted... what in the mindset of Martin is going to do that?

    Huh?

    People originally gravitated to the story and took to the streets to voice their displeasure because a 28 yr old man who followed then killed a teenager whom he had profiled was never arrested and charged with a crime....not necessarily because they already made their mind up he was guilty of something....

    Anyways the point i was trying to make was the media didnt introduce race into the mix, race was always apart of the conversation...

    One could say they fanned the flames but Im thankful they did. We as nation need to have more open and honest dialogues about race and the role it plays in our everyday lives. Maybe itll inspire individuals to confront and question their own prejudices

    About the juries not being able to relate to trayvon....I was simply asserting they wouldnt be able to relate to a person like trayvon making it harder for the prosecution to humanize him.

    Where as they could connect with and sympathize with george because they too share a fear the black man making his story believable... trayvon was blk and therefore gz was fearful of this unarmed kid and rightfully so




    The media had a lot to do with race. The edited 911 recording tried to make it seem like GZ targeted TM because he was black. This was one of the first reports out and has stuck with a lot of people even after it was discovered that it was edited and the people involved were
    fired.

    i remember NBC or ABC doin
    that and it was wrong but the story had already had gained steam way before they aired the edited 911 tape....and again race was always apart of the
    convo

    Reading about the case online way before it was this juicy story and the major media networks had caught wind of it, it was more then obvious gz had racially profiled tm
  • joshuaboyjoshuaboy Members Posts: 10,858 ✭✭✭✭✭
    joshuaboy wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.
    wait, doesn't this also say that thousands of people had decided what the verdict should be before they had access to a complete range of forensic and eyewitness testimony? because that doesn't really sound like the best way to decide a court case
    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night
    what would have been going through Trayvon's mind that would have made Zimmerman more likely to be convicted, though?

    look, my contention was that Martin saw this mysterious guy following him, confronted him about it and things ended up as they did. i completely understand why he would do something like that. but if you're talking about Zimmerman not being convicted... what in the mindset of Martin is going to do that?

    Huh?

    People originally gravitated to the story and took to the streets to voice their displeasure because a 28 yr old man who followed then killed a teenager whom he had profiled was never arrested and charged with a crime....not necessarily because they already made their mind up he was guilty of something....

    Anyways the point i was trying to make was the media didnt introduce race into the mix, race was always apart of the conversation...

    One could say they fanned the flames but Im thankful they did. We as nation need to have more open and honest dialogues about race and the role it plays in our everyday lives. Maybe itll inspire individuals to confront and question their own prejudices

    About the juries not being able to relate to trayvon....I was simply asserting they wouldnt be able to relate to a person like trayvon making it harder for the prosecution to humanize him.

    Where as they could connect with and sympathize with george because they too share a fear the black man making his story believable... trayvon was blk and therefore gz was fearful of this unarmed kid and rightfully so




    The media had a lot to do with race. The edited 911 recording tried to make it seem like GZ targeted TM because he was black. This was one of the first reports out and has stuck with a lot of people even after it was discovered that it was edited and the people involved were
    fired.

    i remember NBC or ABC doin
    that and it was wrong but the story had already had gained steam way before they aired the edited 911 tape....and again race was always apart of the
    convo

    Reading about the case online way before it was this juicy story and the major media networks had caught wind of it, it was more then obvious gz had racially profiled tm


    yea it was NBC. They are being sued heavy right now.

    only time race came into the convo was when the dispatcher asked what race he was.

    the media been pushing for a racial divide since Day 1. They even back peddled when they found out Zimmerman was Hispanic and created a new term "White-Hispanic".
  • kingblaze84kingblaze84 Bronx, NY birthplace of hip-hopMembers Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    joshuaboy wrote: »
    joshuaboy wrote: »
    janklow wrote: »
    so this was no media creation. thousands of people had signed petitions and marched the down the streets of sanford before most the media had even began to follow the story.
    wait, doesn't this also say that thousands of people had decided what the verdict should be before they had access to a complete range of forensic and eyewitness testimony? because that doesn't really sound like the best way to decide a court case
    smh....you don't think it mannered the jury of 6 was made up of 5 white women who more then likely have no idea what it means to be racially profiled, you think they have the same natural distrust of whites, police officers that most blacks have....how could they possibly understand what may have been going through the mind of tray or sympathize with his plight that night
    what would have been going through Trayvon's mind that would have made Zimmerman more likely to be convicted, though?

    look, my contention was that Martin saw this mysterious guy following him, confronted him about it and things ended up as they did. i completely understand why he would do something like that. but if you're talking about Zimmerman not being convicted... what in the mindset of Martin is going to do that?

    Huh?

    People originally gravitated to the story and took to the streets to voice their displeasure because a 28 yr old man who followed then killed a teenager whom he had profiled was never arrested and charged with a crime....not necessarily because they already made their mind up he was guilty of something....

    Anyways the point i was trying to make was the media didnt introduce race into the mix, race was always apart of the conversation...

    One could say they fanned the flames but Im thankful they did. We as nation need to have more open and honest dialogues about race and the role it plays in our everyday lives. Maybe itll inspire individuals to confront and question their own prejudices

    About the juries not being able to relate to trayvon....I was simply asserting they wouldnt be able to relate to a person like trayvon making it harder for the prosecution to humanize him.

    Where as they could connect with and sympathize with george because they too share a fear the black man making his story believable... trayvon was blk and therefore gz was fearful of this unarmed kid and rightfully so




    The media had a lot to do with race. The edited 911 recording tried to make it seem like GZ targeted TM because he was black. This was one of the first reports out and has stuck with a lot of people even after it was discovered that it was edited and the people involved were
    fired.

    i remember NBC or ABC doin
    that and it was wrong but the story had already had gained steam way before they aired the edited 911 tape....and again race was always apart of the
    convo

    Reading about the case online way before it was this juicy story and the major media networks had caught wind of it, it was more then obvious gz had racially profiled tm


    yea it was NBC. They are being sued heavy right now.

    only time race came into the convo was when the dispatcher asked what race he was.

    the media been pushing for a racial divide since Day 1. They even back peddled when they found out Zimmerman was Hispanic and created a new term "White-Hispanic".

    White Hispanic is not a new term. There are many White Hispanics, in fact most Puerto Ricans consider themselves White Hispanic. Zimmerman's father is White so he technically is a White Hispanic
  • janklowjanklow god's lonely man. Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Huh?
    People originally gravitated to the story and took to the streets to voice their displeasure because a 28 yr old man who followed then killed a teenager whom he had profiled was never arrested and charged with a crime....not necessarily because they already made their mind up he was guilty of something, people just felt he should be tried in the court of law
    i'll grant you that a lot of people were angry about him not being arrested/charged and nothing more. but there's a point where when people are saying, prior to hearing the level of evidence that subsequently came out, that he needed to be tried and convicted, then it's not about displeasure over the lack of charges, it's having decided PRIOR to the case that you know what the outcome should be. works both ways, to be frank (this is where the guys who just said "Martin's a thug so he had it coming" come in)
    About the juries not being able to relate to trayvon....I was simply asserting they wouldnt be able to relate to a person like trayvon making it harder for the prosecution to humanize him.
    no argument on that; just commenting more on the "what would have been going through Trayvon's mind" thing
    i remember NBC or ABC doin
    that and it was wrong but the story had already had gained steam way before they aired the edited 911 tape....and again race was always apart of the convo
    not saying race wasn't part of the conversation, but that tape was REALLY tossed out there as proof of Zimmerman's racism. and that tape is 100% on the media.
    White Hispanic is not a new term. There are many White Hispanics, in fact most Puerto Ricans consider themselves White Hispanic. Zimmerman's father is White so he technically is a White Hispanic
    the problem remains people thinking Hispanic is a race

    so once again, as the guy making all the official race calls for the SL, i'll settle this: "white Hispanic" is a legitimate term and it's what Zimmerman is. white people, you will stop pretending Zimmerman is somehow "not white" and thus free of racial issues

  • PlutarchPlutarch A Tribe Called Fresh Philly, PA, by way of Ca$hville, TNMembers Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    @plutarch

    Thanks for reading and from your responses I can tell your a very smart guy

    Respect.
    With that said I feel as though your downplaying the role race plays in our everyday lives...

    I don't know. I know racism is a 🤬 , and all people of color experience it daily. I know I do. I just believe that race didn't have as much to do with this particular verdict as most people seem to think. I guess we just disagree.
    And I also disagree that class now trumps race...fact is poor white people still do not face the same problems, barriers as poor blacks...pretending that it does does blacks more harm then good

    Ok, if I said that class trumps race, I take that back. But I do believe that classism is just as important as racism. Blacks, more than anyone else in the world, just happen to experience both. But blacks don't fight against classism as nearly as I think they should. And I see blacks use race/racism to divide and conquer among themselves (even dark-skin vs. light-skin) and other people of color when it's unnecessary and detrimental to the fight against discrimination and prejudice.

    I also think that poor whites get the short end of the stick as well when it come to employment, the court system, education, etc. Even if they don't experience racism like all blacks do.
  • dwashingtondwashington Members Posts: 4
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE EVENTS LEADING UP TO TRAYVON MARTIN'S DEATH

    1) Misconception: Zimmerman was told not to follow the person who he said he thought was suspicious but he then left his truck and did so anyway.

    In actuality Zimmerman was first talking to police dispatch inside of he truck but then left his truck as they continued to talk. He told police dispatch that the person he thought was suspicious had come to check him out. He said that this person circled his truck and he rolled up his window. He then told dispatch after he rolled up his window that this person "ran off".
    And while he was still talking to police dispatch on the phone that is when he got out of his his truck and dispatch asked him if he was following him. Zimmerman said "yeah". This is the point where Zimmerman was already out of his truck and dispatch told him "we don't need you to do that" . Zimmerman’s reply was “O.K.”
    The misconception that many people have is that he was in his truck when they advised him not to follow Martin and then he ignored it and left his truck and continued to follow him.
    But he was already out of his truck and says he had been looking for a street number address and was returning back to his truck when Martin confronted him.
    He may be lying but the point is despite what the prosecution's theory that he continued to follow Martin after being advised he didn't need to they had no evidence to prove Zimmerman continued to follow Martin at that point. He was already out of his truck when they told him that and he came out because Martin ran away.

    2) Misconception: If one person follows another person the person being followed has the right to attack the person following

    Let's suppose a white person went into a black neighborhood at night and a black person started following them . The white person then punches the black person, knocks him to the ground sits on top of him and starts punching the black person over and over in the head.
    He's not allowed by law to do that just because he's being followed.
    It's not against the law to follow a person in a public area.

    3) Misconception: If it wasn't for that Stand Your Ground Law Zimmerman would have been found guilty.

    In fact the defense didn't use the Stand Your Ground Law in this case.
    In states where there is NOT a Stand Your Ground Law if a person if threatened with 🤬 harm IF they have an opportunity to retreat they must try retreating first. They cannot retaliate first.
    In states that DO have a Stand You Ground Law (sometimes these laws go by other names also) if you are threatened with great 🤬 harm you are not required to try to retreat first you can attack if someone advances on you. This is not a factor in this case because Zimmerman claims he had no option to retreat that
    he had no ground to stand on, that he was cornered. The defense used a standard self defense argument.

    4) Misconception: Trayvon Martin got mad because he thought he was being unfairly profiled due to being black.
    It's possible but we don't know that. He may have been uncertain why he was being followed but didn't like it. Zimmerman claims he had stopped following Martin and he was returning to his truck when Martin came up from behind made a remark and then attacked him.
    He could be lying but since no one was there to see the whole thing that is reasonable doubt and a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. The proof was not there that Zimmerman's account was false. The defendant is not responsible for proving their account true. The prosecution is responsible for proving their account false. They did a reasonable job in attempting this but lacked evidence and witnesses who might have seen the whole thing but none did.


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