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Roland Martin vs. Dr. Umar Johnson

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Comments

  • NoCompetition
    NoCompetition Members Posts: 3,661 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    blackrain wrote: »
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

    You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

    People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

    People so confused they dont know the difference between an error laden impractical nonsensical message that feeds on emotion and bilks the most vulnerable, and the need for real messages that make sense in the world we live and can lead to real solutions. First off if its just simply not true, and/or goes no where thats a big red flag right there. Then if someone cant even be verified in this age of info, and others have come out to say who they say they are, isnt who they are, thats just another step in a noticible pattern. If the message leads to confusion and political impotency, how does that help? And who does it help?...so get these youtube clowns out of here and get the real in there.

    Real solutions and changes are impractical, nonsensical and sometimes error laden....

    Hmmm interesting. We dont need people like this blatantly lying and misleading the most vulnerable for the easy buck, but there is also an element of the unknown to consider. At any rate My thing is its beyond these types. And basically in a whole other direction.
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    5th Letter wrote: »
    5th Letter wrote: »
    5th Letter wrote: »

    Because (once again) the school comment was used as a deflection tactic to discredit, so the logic is if y'all didn't donate then shut the 🤬 up. If things weren't being lost in translation this back and forth wouldn't be happening now. Also (once again sigh) no one is saying or implying that you have to only say nice things about Umar.

    And (once again sigh) when dealing with things involving his degrees/certification etc you can challenge his credentials it's fair game, but don't do it to deflect from his points or argument. The entire interview in the OP is an example of credentials coming into question.

    I don't really understand what you mean by the school comment being used as a deflection, but I'll fall back on that. The school idea is what I most care about from Umar, so I never see it as a deflection. To me it's the most interesting point. So I can acknowledge that maybe you saw a time where it was brought up inappropriately that I didn't take the same way as you.

    And you keep on giving me the "No one is saying..." line. You don't have to say anything. If every time someone brings up a legitimate criticism, you dismiss it as a deflection, you are effectively acting like he can't be criticized. Not only that, but people have actually gotten pretty close to saying he shouldn't be criticized, maybe not you specifically, but there are some comments in here that aren't far from that. Maybe we're all talking past each other or seeing things differently, but I don't see all these incidents where people are bringing up criticisms when they aren't relevant the way you claim.

    Case in point, you point out that his credentials came into question in the OP. That wasn't some kind of deflection though. Roland made it clear that he was starting things off by addressing issues that have been following Umar. It's not like they were on a specific topic and Roland brought up the credentials, school, and Frederick Douglas to deflect from that topic. The topic at hand initially was the controversy surrounding him. And again, I blame Umar for that controversy continuing as much as others. Whenever these questions come up, he just pays a lot of lip service. There are ways that he can definitively shoot down these accusations if they are false, however, he never does it. He always responds with diatribes and gets mad at people for not just taking his word for it.

    What legitimate criticism have I dismissed? I've said (once again smh) when speaking on things where his degrees or certification is relevant it is fair to question and challenge his qualifications, you keep saying things that make me believe you're being purposely obtuse. In the OP the interview was an ambush it was setup by Roland and others on the panel that weren't feeling him and the purpose was to attack him. I've seen Roland interview other people with controversial issues around them and he threw them softball questions. Maybe Umar should just post a pic with his degrees but even then his detractors are just going to find something else to harp on about him anyway.

    You keep on saying that people should keep certain criticisms or when they are relevant, but it seems based on the way this topic has gone that you and others on your side never seem to think they are relevant. I apologize if I missed an instance that you've noted, but I haven't seen these cases when people bring the criticisms up when they aren't relevant. That's why I say you continually dismiss the criticisms. Again, I agree 100% that criticisms should only be brought up when appropriate, but many people on your side (not necessarily you in particular) don't seem to ever think its appropriate and they've said things to that effect.

    I don't watch Roland, so I can't really speak to his interviewing style, but I don't feel the initial part of the interview was an ambush. Roland just brought up the controversial issues that surround Umar. For the most part, he let Umar answer the questions and didn't really grill him too hard. Now, I agree with you that the rest of it seemed to be an ambush because I'm not sure why anyone would set up a 1 vs 3 debate. That's silly.

    And if Umar posts his degrees and people bring up another petty thing to attack him on (e.g. the stripper incident), then you know for sure who are legit critics and who are just haters.
    Let me give you an example (and I hope this clears up my point but it probably won't) if I were talking about Colin Kaepernick's social commentary and his philanthropy for various black causes and someone deflects into a but but he's a terrible quarterback how would that be relevant to the topic at hand? If we are talking about Umar's comments about black empowerment and someone deflects into his degrees how is it relevant? If we were discussing something that is pertaining to his degrees etc then it's fair game. If you have an issue with certain things Umar speaks about pertaining black empowerment then it's fair game to question it. Then have dialogue about his comments regarding black empowerment.

    Roland interviewed Hillary and threw her softball questions and then danced for her, even though she had certain issues regarding her background that was being talked about at the time.

    All of that is fair and your reasoning is and has been clear is where you think the deflection in this particular topic/thread took place. This topic is about the video in the OP, which covered the controversies and some of Umar's points in black empowerment. I don't see how addressing anything that was brought up in the video was a deflection. Did someone try to steer the conversation more towards other issues only to have it deflected? I'm asking because I don't know. I think I can't into the convo late.
  • JokerzWyld
    JokerzWyld Fazer o que você gosta é liberdade. Gostar do que você faz é felicidade Chocolate CityMembers Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    blackrain wrote: »
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    blackrain wrote: »
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    Has anyone in this argument actually disproven anything Dr. Umar has said about his credentials or background/descendancy?

    The family of Frederick Douglas has released a statement saying he's not related to them. I made a thread about it some months back actually

    I'm aware of the statement released by the family. My question is/was does anyone have proof that he is lying about his credentials or background? The statement itself nor twitter is a definitive source.

    People have looked into in the past and no proof has been found he has a PHD. That information is public. It doesnt even take real research. A goos Google search would bring it up and people have checked with the schools and looked online and nothing has been verified

    Has anyone proved that he DOESN'T have a Ph.D? I've gone to PCOM's website multiple times and I've seen his dissertation. Who has proof that he DIDN'T complete the program?
  • jetlifebih
    jetlifebih Sion Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    blackrain wrote: »
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    Umar clarified his douglass relation statement, he is not a direct descendant of Fred but he is of Fred's cousin......

    You know your right when they attack your character and not your message....cause if the message was wrong that would be the first response

    People have said what their issue is with his message many times...any issue is always dismissed as a deflection from a black man talking about issues for black people

    People so confused they dont know the difference between an error laden impractical nonsensical message that feeds on emotion and bilks the most vulnerable, and the need for real messages that make sense in the world we live and can lead to real solutions. First off if its just simply not true, and/or goes no where thats a big red flag right there. Then if someone cant even be verified in this age of info, and others have come out to say who they say they are, isnt who they are, thats just another step in a noticible pattern. If the message leads to confusion and political impotency, how does that help? And who does it help?...so get these youtube clowns out of here and get the real in there.

    Real solutions and changes are impractical, nonsensical and sometimes error laden....

    Hmmm interesting. We dont need people like this blatantly lying and misleading the most vulnerable for the easy buck, but there is also an element of the unknown to consider. At any rate My thing is its beyond these types. And basically in a whole other direction.
    Easy buck ?? Of course not...and I don't know if umar is after money....I don't give him none...but if he is...I will most definitely condem him as I do not agree in robbing the poor

    But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to get about 50-100 soldiers inside a Trojan horse headed into the heart of the enemy to make a difference in your condition....

    I think in the next 50 years protest will turn into what you consider nonsensical and impractical ...and I believe then we will see more immediate results whether they be in our favor or not

    And I don't mean violence necessarily ....imo the bus boycott was impractical and maybe nonsensical depending on your point of view but it yielded results pretty quickly
  • jono
    jono Right fist = power, left fist = unity Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Idk bro. If you tell me I don't have a degree, wouldn't I take a picture of the diploma to end the debate? Seems simple enough to me.
  • semi-auto-mato
    semi-auto-mato Members Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the debate could be ended by anyone. the national clearinghouse charges 24.95 for degree verification. anyone can go and type in Jermaine shoemake aka umar r Abdullah Johnson and found out which schools he attended and degrees received and when received. he himself can show the paperwork. he enjoys this controversy and the folks arguing with him about it like it for the attention they get.

    its good for ratings and popularity
  • jetlifebih
    jetlifebih Sion Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why isn't there a screen shot or video of that website confirming or debunking???? If it's only 30 bucks???

    Certainly the traffic from views would possibly compensate you for spending thirty dollars to find out if umar is legit or not....it's 2017 we know the website yet there are no videos or screen shots going viral??
  • Revolver Ocelot
    Revolver Ocelot Members Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    Why isn't there a screen shot or video of that website confirming or debunking???? If it's only 30 bucks???

    Certainly the traffic from views would possibly compensate you for spending thirty dollars to find out if umar is legit or not....it's 2017 we know the website yet there are no videos or screen shots going viral??

    You ask the same for Umar
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    🤬 making rules for Umar now. The burden is always on the person making a claim to verify it's veracity.

    I beat MJ, AI , and Kobe in a 3 vs 1 Bball game. Prove me wrong.
  • blackgod813
    blackgod813 Members Posts: 9,577 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Umar give a 🤬 to prove this shouldnt even be a question a black man a doctor...he must be lying gtoh..he told u the school now go play some where ..an fred married a 🤬 at 80 as a 🤬 sucker
  • jetlifebih
    jetlifebih Sion Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    🤬 making rules for Umar now. The burden is always on the person making a claim to verify it's veracity.

    I beat MJ, AI , and Kobe in a 3 vs 1 Bball game. Prove me wrong.

    lol they've never played a game together 3 v any one person ever.....lol don't even have to verify it....not even at basketball camps
  • semi-auto-mato
    semi-auto-mato Members Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    Why isn't there a screen shot or video of that website confirming or debunking???? If it's only 30 bucks???

    Certainly the traffic from views would possibly compensate you for spending thirty dollars to find out if umar is legit or not....it's 2017 we know the website yet there are no videos or screen shots going viral??

    Here u go cuz I ain't paying. I really don't care if he is or isn't a ph d. I realize this is a game to all involved. He loves this 🤬 and these radio stations and tv stations love it as well.

    https://nscverifications.org

    Tell em semi sent you. 10% off today only
  • bambu
    bambu *Earth & Water* Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    the debate could be ended by anyone. the national clearinghouse charges 24.95 for degree verification. anyone can go and type in Jermaine shoemake aka umar r Abdullah Johnson and found out which schools he attended and degrees received and when received. he himself can show the paperwork. he enjoys this controversy and the folks arguing with him about it like it for the attention they get.

    its good for ratings and popularity

    Nah,

    I think people want it resolved....

    There have been articles written and websites published on it...

    http://afrikan-resistance.blogspot.com/2015/12/evidence-and-facts-vs-fraud-and.html?m=1

    http://www.theroot.com/we-fact-checked-umar-johnsons-hotep-tantrum-with-roland-1796798532

    The school Johnson claims he attended for his doctorate—the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine—also participates in the National Student Clearinghouse. It could not verify a degree under any variation of the name Umar Abdullah-Johnson or under Johnson’s birth name, Jermaine Shoemake.


    So no, the National Student Clearinghouse can not verify his PhD....






  • semi-auto-mato
    semi-auto-mato Members Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bambu wrote: »
    the debate could be ended by anyone. the national clearinghouse charges 24.95 for degree verification. anyone can go and type in Jermaine shoemake aka umar r Abdullah Johnson and found out which schools he attended and degrees received and when received. he himself can show the paperwork. he enjoys this controversy and the folks arguing with him about it like it for the attention they get.

    its good for ratings and popularity

    Nah,

    I think people want it resolved....

    There have been articles written and websites published on it...

    The school Johnson claims he attended for his doctorate—the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine—also participates in the National Student Clearinghouse. It could not verify a degree under any variation of the name Umar Abdullah-Johnson or under Johnson’s birth name, Jermaine Shoemake.

    So no, the National Student Clearinghouse can not verify his PhD....






    U just ended the debate. If the school participates and they couldn't verify his ph d then he ain't got one. Did they at least verify enrollment at some point or is he just straight up lying?
  • bambu
    bambu *Earth & Water* Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bambu wrote: »
    the debate could be ended by anyone. the national clearinghouse charges 24.95 for degree verification. anyone can go and type in Jermaine shoemake aka umar r Abdullah Johnson and found out which schools he attended and degrees received and when received. he himself can show the paperwork. he enjoys this controversy and the folks arguing with him about it like it for the attention they get.

    its good for ratings and popularity

    Nah,

    I think people want it resolved....

    There have been articles written and websites published on it...

    The school Johnson claims he attended for his doctorate—the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine—also participates in the National Student Clearinghouse. It could not verify a degree under any variation of the name Umar Abdullah-Johnson or under Johnson’s birth name, Jermaine Shoemake.

    So no, the National Student Clearinghouse can not verify his PhD....






    U just ended the debate. If the school participates and they couldn't verify his ph d then he ain't got one. Did they at least verify enrollment at some point or is he just straight up lying?

    He was listed as a doctoral candidate in 2009....

    But, that's it.....

    Never made the graduation.....

    And there is evidence that he was calling himself Dr as early as 2006.....





  • semi-auto-mato
    semi-auto-mato Members Posts: 2,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bambu wrote: »
    bambu wrote: »
    the debate could be ended by anyone. the national clearinghouse charges 24.95 for degree verification. anyone can go and type in Jermaine shoemake aka umar r Abdullah Johnson and found out which schools he attended and degrees received and when received. he himself can show the paperwork. he enjoys this controversy and the folks arguing with him about it like it for the attention they get.

    its good for ratings and popularity

    Nah,

    I think people want it resolved....

    There have been articles written and websites published on it...

    The school Johnson claims he attended for his doctorate—the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine—also participates in the National Student Clearinghouse. It could not verify a degree under any variation of the name Umar Abdullah-Johnson or under Johnson’s birth name, Jermaine Shoemake.

    So no, the National Student Clearinghouse can not verify his PhD....






    U just ended the debate. If the school participates and they couldn't verify his ph d then he ain't got one. Did they at least verify enrollment at some point or is he just straight up lying?

    He was listed as a doctoral candidate in 2009....

    But, that's it.....

    Never made the graduation.....

    And there is evidence that he was calling himself Dr as early as 2006.....





    Lol damn
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Man with No Fucks Given Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    🤬 making rules for Umar now. The burden is always on the person making a claim to verify it's veracity.

    I beat MJ, AI , and Kobe in a 3 vs 1 Bball game. Prove me wrong.

    lol they've never played a game together 3 v any one person ever.....lol don't even have to verify it....not even at basketball camps

    Yes, they did, right in my backyard. I whooped their 🤬 too. I had 30 pts in a game of 21, 10 assists to myself, 15 rebounds, 10 blocks, and 11 steals. They wanted to run it back, but I told them to wait until they got some game. See, I'm saying it happened and I've provided details, so I've proven it.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    🤬 making rules for Umar now. The burden is always on the person making a claim to verify it's veracity.

    I beat MJ, AI , and Kobe in a 3 vs 1 Bball game. Prove me wrong.

    lol they've never played a game together 3 v any one person ever.....lol don't even have to verify it....not even at basketball camps

    Yes, they did, right in my backyard. I whooped their 🤬 too. I had 30 pts in a game of 21, 10 assists to myself, 15 rebounds, 10 blocks, and 11 steals. They wanted to run it back, but I told them to wait until they got some game. See, I'm saying it happened and I've provided details, so I've proven it.

    I saw the game...

    I recorded it...but my phone was stolen.

    Ehh should I prove it happened?
  • jetlifebih
    jetlifebih Sion Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    🤬 making rules for Umar now. The burden is always on the person making a claim to verify it's veracity.

    I beat MJ, AI , and Kobe in a 3 vs 1 Bball game. Prove me wrong.

    lol they've never played a game together 3 v any one person ever.....lol don't even have to verify it....not even at basketball camps

    Yes, they did, right in my backyard. I whooped their 🤬 too. I had 30 pts in a game of 21, 10 assists to myself, 15 rebounds, 10 blocks, and 11 steals. They wanted to run it back, but I told them to wait until they got some game. See, I'm saying it happened and I've provided details, so I've proven it.

    But there's not even circumstantial evidence such as you even knowing one of the two (the website confirmed umars undergraduate status and areas he earned his degree in like school psychology, it's just the doctorates that is missing even though he was a canidate)

    Now if you can provide circumstantial evidence that would move you closer towards your claim then I'd entertain this but your reaching with the analogy...i understand what you are saying but usually when people say they have phds nobody asks them to produce there diplomas....my father has his phd in psychology and is never questioned even as to where he completed his degree....
    jetlifebih wrote: »
    🤬 making rules for Umar now. The burden is always on the person making a claim to verify it's veracity.

    I beat MJ, AI , and Kobe in a 3 vs 1 Bball game. Prove me wrong.

    lol they've never played a game together 3 v any one person ever.....lol don't even have to verify it....not even at basketball camps

    Yes, they did, right in my backyard. I whooped their 🤬 too. I had 30 pts in a game of 21, 10 assists to myself, 15 rebounds, 10 blocks, and 11 steals. They wanted to run it back, but I told them to wait until they got some game. See, I'm saying it happened and I've provided details, so I've proven it.

    I saw the game...

    I recorded it...but my phone was stolen.

    Ehh should I prove it happened?

    If you could also provide circumstantial evidence that would even put you in the backyard with a cell phone I'd entertain this one too but your making the claim with 0 evidence like I said there's evidence umar may have completed his doctorates which is why it's still up for discussion....
  • jetlifebih
    jetlifebih Sion Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 4,655 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bambu wrote: »
    the debate could be ended by anyone. the national clearinghouse charges 24.95 for degree verification. anyone can go and type in Jermaine shoemake aka umar r Abdullah Johnson and found out which schools he attended and degrees received and when received. he himself can show the paperwork. he enjoys this controversy and the folks arguing with him about it like it for the attention they get.

    its good for ratings and popularity

    Nah,

    I think people want it resolved....

    There have been articles written and websites published on it...

    http://afrikan-resistance.blogspot.com/2015/12/evidence-and-facts-vs-fraud-and.html?m=1

    http://www.theroot.com/we-fact-checked-umar-johnsons-hotep-tantrum-with-roland-1796798532

    The school Johnson claims he attended for his doctorate—the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine—also participates in the National Student Clearinghouse. It could not verify a degree under any variation of the name Umar Abdullah-Johnson or under Johnson’s birth name, Jermaine Shoemake.


    So no, the National Student Clearinghouse can not verify his PhD....






    Why didn't the root post the screenshot or video??

    They could be piggy backing off the claim that he is not on the site

    A pic or video would shut everything down...but here say gets 🤬 off cases so.......
  • geechee slim
    geechee slim I bomb atomicly with socrates philosophies and hypothesis Members Posts: 2,465 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "You're a 🤬 " is the quote of the year so far.

    Pro-black / black conscious / kemetic / black Hebrews need to call out more of this. And date / marry more black women. Our cultural contributions to America are being gentrified just like our music. If you're serving the oppressor, then you might be a supremacist and a 🤬 . Psychological warfare is making us forget who we were.
  • Olorun22
    Olorun22 Members Posts: 5,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2017
    Welp!!!!!!! Looks like he's a DR. UMAR JOHNSON

    🤬 all you 🤬 🤬 ass 🤬

    ww.theroot.com/i-was-wrong-his-name-is-doctor-umar-johnson-1797016800
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Who I am is Complex, What i am, simply put. I'm a Threat walking out the lions denGuests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so now does his points have merit?

    or do we have to bring up the stripper next and ask where the school is?

    @bambu
    whats up bruh. a bit under the weather today?
  • Olorun22
    Olorun22 Members Posts: 5,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so now does his points have merit?

    or do we have to bring up the stripper next and ask where the school is?

    @bambu
    whats up bruh. a bit under the weather today?

    When the hate doesn't work they start telling liessssss
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